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Post by sillypoint on Aug 7, 2023 8:35:08 GMT
Not bowled well enough this year so far. Lancs preferring Morley even though not as good a batter. Charlie Barnard might prove better than the pair of them, and he scored 60 for the 2nds recently.
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Post by oldhamexile on Aug 7, 2023 9:07:45 GMT
Must admit I’m amazed to see Tom Hartley being touted by both Derek Pringle and another writer ( forget who and I’ve now given the paper away) as an outside bet for the Indian tour. Pringle said that on a raging turner, you need someone who bowls good pace with a repeatable action who can land the ball in the same spot. He said to forget the luxury of flight and variation which was for “ dreamers on non turning pitches”. He said that Monty Panesar outbowled the Indians in India through lack of variation. Must admit, so many things happen both in and out of cricket as I get older that I do wonder if I understand anything nowadays and Derek Pringle knows far more about the game than I do. However, I will say that one spinner of variation and flight, Gary Keedy , gave me more pleasure in each season of his long career, indeed in some of his individual overs, than a host of flat spinners gave me in their combined careers. Isn’t it supposed to be entertainment ? Flight also gives bats more chance to attack. Bishen Bedi was regarded as a great bowler and entertainer through his variation but maybe he would have to change his game today. Whilst on the left arm spinners, Lancashire made the mistake of trying to turn Stephen Parry from an excellent one day bowler into a dual purpose bowler and he lost it in the one day game. Often wonder if Simon Kerrigan could have gone on an Indian tour at the end of the 2011 season , would he have made it? Great post Des, much to ponder on. I enjoyed watching Kerrigan bowl to Pujara (on tv) yesterday. In a properly structured championship where spin had a part to play he would still walk into most teams. However, that isn't the case and I fear he will be released at the end of the season. A great loss, one will always wonder what might have been if not for that savaging by Shane Watson. Gary Keedy would be nailed on for the the tour if he was around today, although of course he would also be affected by the current championship schedule. I tend to agree with Pringle in his analysis of the type of spinner required on a raging bunsen, you need someone who can land it, poor Dom Bess was unable to do so last time. I'd be considering Dawson and Carson. I thought Keogh at Northants bowled well last season but haven't seen much of him this year. Maybe Dan Moriarty, although again he's not had much of a bowl. I think Tom Hartley has fallen foul of the dual purpose you idenitified with Steve Parry - he's lost his one day length as a result of playing championship cricket, very difficult for young spinners to alternate between the different formats. |
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Post by alanw on Aug 7, 2023 15:29:24 GMT
This highlights the shortage of young spinners in the country and the folly of letting Parky leave.
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Post by oldhamexile on Aug 8, 2023 8:52:33 GMT
Hartley bowled well last night, but to my untutored eye it seemed to be predicated on getting the batters to hit to the long boundary.
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Post by Admin on Sept 15, 2023 14:39:20 GMT
Called into ODI squad for game against Ireland
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Post by Phil on Sept 15, 2023 15:27:38 GMT
Called into ODI squad for game against Ireland Good luck to him, not a bad one day player, not sure he will make it as a four day player. |
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Post by alanw on Sept 15, 2023 16:10:21 GMT
Called into ODI squad for game against Ireland Good luck to him, not a bad one day player, not sure he will make it as a four day player.
Our bowling options for the last two championship games seem to be decreasing by the day. |
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Post by chris on Sept 15, 2023 19:53:06 GMT
Called into ODI squad for game against Ireland
Odd thing is that I don't recall him carrying the drinks much over the last few years, which makes any call up even stranger. Third spinner after Jacks and Ahmed.
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Post by man in the stand on Sept 15, 2023 19:59:21 GMT
Sounds like the Ireland games will be used to trial players so a lot of the big guns won't play. No excuse not to play Morley now however the weather forecast looks a bit grim...
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Post by chris on Sept 19, 2023 10:28:36 GMT
Career first class stats for Lancs:
2020-2022 265 overs, 21 wickets, BB 3/79, 4/42 & 5/52 (year by year)
2023: 269 overs, 18 wickets, BB 2/10
scored more runs though (350 compared with 150 over the previous three years) and the 350 runs were almost at an average of 40. His fielding's way better than average as well.
Isn't that the dilemma?
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Post by man in the stand on Sept 19, 2023 11:44:33 GMT
Career first class stats for Lancs: 2020-2022 265 overs, 21 wickets, BB 3/79, 4/42 & 5/52 (year by year) 2023: 269 overs, 18 wickets, BB 2/10 scored more runs though (350 compared with 150 over the previous three years) and the 350 runs were almost at an average of 40. His fielding's way better than average as well. Isn't that the dilemma?
Depends if you see his role as an all rounder or just a bowler. As the latter his strike rate is not too good at 80+...
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Post by chris on Sept 19, 2023 12:38:40 GMT
Career first class stats for Lancs: 2020-2022 265 overs, 21 wickets, BB 3/79, 4/42 & 5/52 (year by year) 2023: 269 overs, 18 wickets, BB 2/10 scored more runs though (350 compared with 150 over the previous three years) and the 350 runs were almost at an average of 40. His fielding's way better than average as well. Isn't that the dilemma?
Depends if you see his role as an all rounder or just a bowler. As the latter his strike rate is not too good at 80+...
He's been used as the sole spinner in all bar one of his 9 games this year. |
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Post by exile on Sept 19, 2023 16:14:05 GMT
Can't see Hartley ever making it as a red ball spinner, especially 2nd innings at OT. He just doesn't generate enough turn or bounce to dismiss batters who are not interested in scoring off him. He does OK in white ball, especially T20, because the batter has to look to score and Hartley has the knack of inducing mishits by batters trying to hit over the top. I don't think his batting justifies being chosen ahead of Morley in 4-day games. Lancs have plenty of batters - what they need is bowlers who can be relied on to take wickets.
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Post by lancsdes on Nov 14, 2023 12:57:19 GMT
For those of you who can get behind The Times payroll www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tom-hartley-meet-the-spinner-pushing-for-test-debut-in-india-qsq2m62psNot proud of myself for subscribing to anything related to Murdoch but is worth it to read opposite views and for my favourite Tory Michael Atherton who is worth the sub on his own. Think he is the finest combined writer /broadcaster since John Arlott though very different. Atherton unmatched on technical knowledge even though he wasn’t a great captain. Arlott a master at description ( Blofeld a destitution man’s Arlott). Incidentally , John Arlott once said there were only six left wing people in the whole of cricket. |
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Post by Admin on Dec 11, 2023 12:14:05 GMT
Selected in Test Squad
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